Posts Tagged ‘Torture’
It seems we must endure it
South Shields MP and Foreign Secretary David Miliband along with Home Secretary Alan Johnson seems unable to guarantee that our security services are not accepting “evidence” from “helpful allies” who are using barbaric torture techniques to extract information. The credibility of information obtained using these methods must always be questioned, hence the call from a committee of MPs and peers for a full independent inquiry.
It seems, for now, that we must all endure the torture that a so called civilised nation is accepting uncivilised methods to build dubious cases against suspects in the TWAT (The War Against Terror).
To show that he is a man of honour and a civil person to boot, Miliband has decided to extend torture to the people of South Shields by inviting and joining the Lord High Almighty Everything Mandelson to give Labour’s annual “lecture to the people” on October 23rd. (probably at South Tyneside College, nope it’s at Harton Technology College). What did we do to deserve that?
To add insult to injury (and torture) David Lindsay tells us that Labour’s local council candidates are chosen not by the Constituency Labour Party, but by a cabal in Miliband’s London office.
This one I doubt – I suspect that Lindsay spilled this information whilst under extreme duress and torture poor lad!
He was implacably right to expose our complicity in torture
Maverick Conservative MP and former shadow Home Secretary David Davis used Parliamentary privilege on Tuesday night to reveal in some detail our government’s shameful involvement and complicity in the process of allowing third party states to torture those suspects who we believe to be involved in terrorism. Notwithstanding the fact that we are dealing with some pretty fanatical elements here who may stop at nothing to blow themselves and others up in a quite barbaric fashion, it would be harmful to our way of life if we as a nation we were to condone, accept, and allow the same barbaric methods to be used to elicit answers.
Those who have been tortured will readily admit that there are only two doors to open, one leads to your freedom and release from pain (to open that door you must provide information, either credible or deceitful) the other leads to your death – most choose to live. The reliability of information elicited under torture is often less than imagined and as credible evidence it is often close to useless.
To condone or in some way to participate in such a process puts our security services in the same odious arena of those nations whom we seek to harangue and criticise over their poor record on human rights. Simply, there ought to be no place for it in our jurisdiction.
There is quite a debate going on over the issue at Iain Dale’s place where commenters are split between those who look as though they are happy to fight fire with fire in a revengeful mode, and those more concerned over the correct role of the state in ensuring some basic rights and freedoms and a sense of fair play. Two comments strike a chord with me first Unsworth says:
‘War on Terror’ – WTF is that? It’s merely a catch-all to allow nefarious, illegal activity by this (and the American) government. To declare ‘War’ you must first identify the ‘Enemy’ and also have scrutinisable evidence of this Enemy’s intents.
Davis was/is absolutely right to raise the matter in Parliament. There is a direct contradiction between the Government’s stated and actual positions.
If the Government actually believes it’s OK to torture by proxy it should say so quite clearly. If not, it should condemn such actions outright – and take action against the perpetrators and their enablers. What the Government cannot do is have it both ways.
Something for the South Shields MP and Foreign Secretary David Miliband to think about, perhaps before the next court judge drags some action out of him.
Secondly Wegand says:
David Davis was, of course, right to do this.
I hope that I am wrong but one fears that it will have only added to the bad odour in which he is held by DC; which would say much about both of them.
Davis is proving to be a man of principle who has little fear in raising these issues from the back benches, this gives us some hope for the future so long as there are MPs like him willing to take a stand and fight the brave fight against the power of the state. This leaves an unanswered question about his leader David Cameron and how he would approach the erosion of our civil liberties after more than a decade of Labour’s meddlings and the use of TWAT (The War Against Terror) as a cover for draconian measures which have immeasurably tilted the balance away from the individual and towards the state in a shift which has without doubt “changed the way of British life”, and the greatest change right now (unsurprisingly) is the way in which our Muslim communities view our policies and the way in which we view them.
Isn’t this partly what the terrorists wanted to achieve in the first place?
Like erm….what’s going on here Boris?
There are some hard hearted morons in this place
I cannot believe what I am reading in the comments section of this article in The Times about Binyam Mohamed’s alleged torture, let’s make it clear and simple:
- Whatever information was gleaned was not sufficient to lead to ANY charges
- Torture is a notoriously poor tool for extracting genuine information, most victims will tell their inquisitors what they want to hear, just to escape the pain.
- If he was a great international threat, would the Americans have released him?
- Do these people feel no shame that the UK allegedly colluded with these medieval methods?
- Have we not got sufficient surveillance methods, data capture tools, electronic intelligence gathering, and human intelligence to form a case?
- Don’t we believe in the rule of law?
- There have been many miscarriages of justice since this War Against Terror began, you wouldn’t want to be one of the mistakes.
- The risk of being blown apart by a terrorist bomb in the UK are far less than those for being killed by a car when you cross the road.
- Mohamed’s allegations need to be viewed seriously and a full and proper criminal examination of MI5′s involvement needs to take place NOW.
- The Foreign Secretary and South Shields MP David Miliband needs to be more frank, open, and forthcoming with the House of Commons over Britain’s involvement with the whole of the rendition process, the selection of suspects, the sharing of information, and the operation of the US bases at Diego Garcia and Guantanamo.
Image Hat Tip – the irrepressible Beau Bo D’or
The Joint Committee on Human Rights have asked the Attorney General Baroness Scotland, the “second Home” Secretary “Jackboots” Smith, and the South Shields MP and Foreign Secretary David Miliband to come along and offer a few explanations.This comes amid growing concern that the British Government of Gordon Brown may have been complicit in the torture (and it’s covering up) of Guantanamo Bay detainee and British resident Binyam Mohamed, as well as possible criminal actions by British agents in Pakistan.
Committee chairman Andrew Dismore told Miliband and Smith that the allegations, if true, “cast considerable doubt on the UK’s compliance with the UN convention against torture and the intelligence and security services’ compliance with the Human Rights Act”. He also said that if there were any truth in the allegations they would “call into question repeated assurances from the government that it is fundamentally opposed to the use of torture”.
Can we now reasonably assume that Miliband no longer wishes to lead a post Brown Labour Party?
Justin Keating at Chicken Yoghurt asks (presumably on behalf of all former Labour supporters):
“What it’s all worth. It this what it’s come to for us?”
Is it about sending a message do you think? Is it supposed to be like those al Qaeda videos when they behead someone and put the footage on the internet? A ‘Hack at our necks and we’ll hack at your cocks’ kind of thing? We’re talking about a situation where conventional morality – the morality by which the rest of us live our lives – takes a look at the job advert and decides against it. In other words: it doesn’t apply.
It makes you wonder why they’re trying to cover up this genital mutilation business. It’s clear now that we’re party to it. Thin lip service to condemnations of torture from the likes of the morally inverted David Miliband now mean precisely nowt.