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Royal Anglian protest

Freedom of Speech should not be pilloried

Someone has to say it about this protest, I don’t see many on the libertarian right this morning defending our rights to protest peacefully and legally.

I am not going to get into a debate about the rights and wrongs of the conflicts in Iraq or Afghanistan, however I am going to say that our servicemen and women do an outstanding professional job wherever the elected government of their country sends them, their valour, bravery, and training is renowned worldwide, and I believe they should be given due respect when returning home. I do not believe that they should be pilloried or mocked or abused in the fashion that they were in Luton yesterday.

That does not mean that I don’t defend the right to free speech and public demonstrations, I do emphatically, it’s just, you know, there is a right time and a right place for these things, and if the protesters put themselves in a position that may be seen to be inciting any sort of violence or hatred then their protest verges on the illegal, perhaps they came close to behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace. One has to ask if they exhausted other avenues first, writing to MPs, writing to the MOD, writing to newspapers,protesting away from the returning regiment .

Yesterday’s protest was insensitive and has deflected media interest towards a direction that is likely to cause even more ethnic, religious, and moral division, it ought to have been planned for another day, perhaps even another place.

However, as I have said before there is no right NOT to cause offence, so long as it is done in a legal fashion, there will be many times that we don’t like or care to hear the message of the protesters, but in a liberal open democracy we must respect their rights to do so.

I wonder if the Muslim population of Luton fully supported the protest, I suspect not judging by the small numbers, and I wonder too if they have thought upon the fact that a few years ago they would all have been slaughtered along with their families for daring to show such dissent in Baghdad, a situation which our troops have now helped to reverse.  The daft thing is, the very same people wished to crush the rights to free speech of a visiting Dutch MP, double standards, or what?

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Written by curly

March 11, 2009 at 10:05 am

Posted in Democracy, Events, Freedom, liberty, News

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59 Responses

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  1. “the very same people wished to crush the rights to free speech of a visiting Dutch MP”
    Curly, how do you know it was the very same people?

    Bryan

    March 11, 2009 at 10:39 am

  2. Sorry, you are right, perhaps I should have said that many Muslims wished to restrict the free speech of Geert Wilders.

    Curly

    March 11, 2009 at 11:24 am

  3. Where do you draw the line in your liberal open democracy? If freedom of speech is what you and I cherish so much, do you not also share my view that when things happen that threaten our future ability to do so, we should act accordingly to protect this right.

    I support your view on the right to peaceful protest, even if this was a day of celebrating our brave men and women, and remembering those of their colleagues that fell in combat. However as you also hightlight, I do not feel this was the time or place. There will have been people there yesterday who had lost loved ones, whether they were family or friends or simply people of their town.

    Anyway, on my first point, I do believe that the growth of Islam in this country is a very real threat to our liberties and freedoms.

    LibertyMine

    March 11, 2009 at 8:57 pm

  4. I believe that the only person arrested was one of the counter protestors from the crowd of supporters there to cheer on the Royal Anglians. Apparently in Brown’s Britain, muslims carrying signs get a pass, but native Englishmen are required to stfu in the face of provocation. Hard to imagine a pro-Nazi demonstration calling a British regiment returning from North Africa in 1943 “cowards” and baby-killers” as well as mocking their dead.

    Semper Paratus

    March 11, 2009 at 10:12 pm

  5. There’s a vast difference between freedom of expression and expressing hatred in the most opportune time to incite backlash. It’s like going to a funeral and telling the widow that the deceased was a loser and deserved to die. It was a Muslim provocation. They had the “freedom” to do it, but it’s ironic because none of these third world jihadists have any respect for freedom at all.

    Raphael Alexander

    March 11, 2009 at 10:55 pm

  6. I thought i was visiting a respectable blog, but instead it seems its the home of the B.N.P.
    What the heck has Islam got to do with the protests that happened in Luton?Curly you are very hypocrytical, you were against the people that didn’t support that Dutch M.P s views? You said freedom of expression is right. Now you say its wrong, because you can’t stand the thought that these people protested!Such a hypocrite!And don’t justify yourself, your just a platform for hatemongers. My opinion is that it as a very insensitive protest that took place, especially as there was grieving relatives there. But thats the price of freedom of expression, that very thing that you were trying to justify about that Dutch MPs visit.
    What and what did Liberty Mine say “Islam is a threat in this country”, i think his name is BNP Liberty rather. He forgets to mention and so does hatemonger curly, that the mosque in Luton condemned the protests.Its amazing you racist bigots dont use religion and Christianity when the Real IRA just murdered our servicemen, these are Protestents are Catholics, you never mention their religion, you don’t even call them terrorists anymore. Im Muslim, born and bred here, it makes me sick that curly and his BNP crew can spread such hatred.But i guess thats the price of freedom of expression. oh and if you think Islam is a threat liberty, go live in Russia!

    Lalon Amin

    March 12, 2009 at 12:03 am

  7. “I wonder if the Muslim population of Luton fully supported the protest, I suspect not judging by the small numbers, and I wonder too if they have thought upon the fact that a few years ago they would all have been slaughtered along with their families for daring to show such dissent in Baghdad, a situation which our troops have now helped to reverse.”
    What a load of crap, Muslims arent grateful to you mate, as 90% of us have never been to Iraq, you say it as if to say that if the war didn’t happen Saddam would have killed us, what a load of crap!But im sure the nearly one million dead Iraqis are grateful that they were killed rather than by Saddam!We would all have been slaughtered, really Curly?

    Lalon Amin

    March 12, 2009 at 12:41 am

  8. The reconquista starts. Good.

    oliver

    March 12, 2009 at 8:08 am

  9. Lalon it is easy to condemn and throw around accusations. I am not a racist, and I am not a supporter of the BNP. In fact race has nothing to do with this. Islam is not a race, it is a religion.

    I have very close friends who are Sikh and Hindu, Jew and Christian. I am able to be friends with these people because despite our different faiths we are able to still share many aspects of our lives in a positive way. I cannot say that about Islam.

    Freedom of speech is a value I fight for because it is being undermined by people with your sort of views. One cannot criticise Islam without being called all manner of insults. It is fine for a muslim to call for the death of jews on the streets of London, but not for me to voice my opinion that Islam is a threat to freedom and liberty in this country. Look around the world. Show me an Islamic country which has the codes and values that this Judeo-Christian society has. This is not an argument about which is better, it is about what I want – and that the continuation of these codes and traditions.

    In this country is it okay to ban a Dutch MP from entering the UK, yet allow the media editor of the terrorist group Hezbullah.

    It is okay to bar an army veteran from applying to join the police because his England tattoo might cause offence, and police dogs are told to wear booties when they enter any Muslim household.

    It is about the fact that despite all the different religions that exist in this country it is only Islam that demands this, demands that. It is only Islam that is attacking our society. Hindus and Sikhs are not. Neither are Jews and Buddhiss.

    You are not wise to stray into the issue of Northern Ireland because it divides the UK down many lines. It is too simple to say it is about religion alone. It is about Republicanism and Unionism. I have Irish roots, my family is mainly Catholic. However I am a unionists at heart. That said I believe the people of Northern Ireland should make their own mind up. Christianity has done many foul deeds in the past, but so have all religions. The difference today is that the threat to the liberties and freedoms we cherish in the UK are being undermined by the pandering that goes on towards Islam, and Islam alone.

    And once again I will say – as have many others, that the only races we ever see on tv – and don’t blame the media for this – are those so-called “extremists”. Even the so-called moderates when you listen to their language use words that sympathise with the miltants, fundamentalists and extremists.

    LibertyMine

    March 12, 2009 at 8:14 am

  10. Mr. Amin,

    it seems that every time that you come here I have to remind you to read and engage some brain cells before launching into a tirade of nonsense.

    At the very start of the post I complain that few people on the libertarian right have stood up to defend the right to free speech that Muslims in Luton deserve, go back and read it for yourself.

    In the third paragraph I say again that I emphatically defend their right to free speech, do you have problems reading?

    In the fifth paragraph I say that we must respect their rights to protest, did you miss that too?

    You said:

    You said freedom of expression is right. Now you say its wrong, because you can’t stand the thought that these people protested!

    how on earth can you come to those conclusions if you have really read my words?

    I think you ought to reconsider your remarks about calling me a hatemonger and a racist bigot too Lalon, at no point do I ever raise a race issue, a colour, or an ethnicity. I spoke about a religion, which every newspaper in the country mentioned. Now if you don’t want me to defend a Muslim’s right to free speech I will fill my time defending someone else.

    As for your last remarks, may I remind you that I wrote near the beginning that this topic was not to debate the rights or wrongs of either the Iraq or the Afghanistan conflict, my intention was to defend the free speech of a minority.

    As for others who comment here, I do not normally operate any policy of censorship, as you know, some of the commenters have websites of their own and if you feel unable to satisfactorily address their remarks here, then can I suggest that you comment directly on their sites.

    Actually Lalon I find your remarks offend me, they are without real foundation, I am NOT a member of ANY political party, as I keep reminding people, I am entitled to make a constructive criticism without the hurling of “the race cord” in my direction, and by defending a Muslim’s right to protest I do not deserve your accusations of being a hatemongering racist bigot offering a platform to extremists, you choose your words very unwisely and I ask you to withdraw them and offer an apology.

    The ONLY person to bring any racist issues to this thread has been yourself, you’d be surprised to learn that I still defend your rights to hold your opinions even when they are plainly ghastly and wholly divisive.

    curly

    March 12, 2009 at 8:21 am

  11. Well said!

    Alison

    March 12, 2009 at 1:52 pm

  12. Ok, i firstly apologise to Mr Curly for calling him a hate monger, i am however adamant that he gives a platform for bigots, racists and hate mongers. I also should have really said that Curly incites hate mongers.
    Watch 5 Steps to Tyranny, and you will see what i mean.
    Liberty, you clearly are ignorant about Islam, you have no clue about Islam, you only perceive what’s wrong with Islam. Prejudist and racists are in the same category, your either one of them, for sure! I am also sure that the Muslim world will not be crying that you hate Islam!
    But let me tell you that Islam is about living side by side with your neighbour, its about peace. More than 20 million Christians live in the Middle East, without threat or reprisals, they are in fact, generational Christians, who live side by side with their Muslim neighbours.
    Islam is not a threat to the U.K, we have no heirachy in our religion, there is no conspiracy, and i can assure you the government do not pay lip service to Muslims, quite the opposite. In regards to the Northern ireland issue, ok lets say you are right, its not about religion, but nor is the Palestine issue, or the Iraq or Afghanistan issue, so why is it then that people like you keep mentioning Islam and Muslims…why not apply the same logic to Northern Ireland, these guys just killed our servicemen, why not say it was Christian terrorists? My view is, that you shouldn’t call them Christian or Muslim terrorists, but plain and simple terrorists. Oh and i value freedom of speech, but upto a point where its not inciting hatred! The few who protested in Luton were bang out of order, i am against that protest, I was also against the Dutch M.P spilling his hatred in the U.K, i am consistent, but Curly doesn”t know where he stands.
    Curly said “The daft thing is, the very same people wished to crush the rights to free speech of a visiting Dutch MP, double standards, or what?” how do you know it was the same people?

    Curly says that i am being devisive, i think thats called reverse phsycology mate!

    Curly, why are you making yourself out to be the valiant hero who is defending Muslims from protesting? Sounds ridiculous.

    Lalon Amin

    March 12, 2009 at 4:03 pm

  13. Err, Lalon, you also called me a racist and a bigot, for which you have not yet apologised. Please try to climb out of the trap which dictates that you should attack me as a racist simply because I have discussed a topic which includes either the words Muslim or Islam.

    Yes, I offer a platform here, to any who wish to discuss and debate, I am tolerant of a very wide spectrum of views and believe that all should be able to put their case.

    Let me get your logic straight here, you appear to be saying that the Muslim protesters in Luton are not worth defending and by extension have no rights to free speech because they are “bang out of order” and “incite hatred” like Geert Wilders. You are a strange one, would you prefer that I DO NOT defend their right to freedom of speech and expression and we all give in to the baying crowds and the “Red top” newspapers?

    You suppose that it is acceptable that the noise of a baying crowd should be allowed to extinguish the small voice of a few?

    I seem to remember that when Lord Ahmed Khan declared that he would bring 10,000 Muslims protesting to Parliament that this triggered the Home Secretary’s decision not to allow Wilder’s entry to the country, again illustrating the potential power of a large crowd against the voices of a few.

    I still struggle to understand your anger over my defence of free speech, and in recent months it seems that it has been Muslim victims of repression and torture, or the so called War Against Terror that I have defended the most, apart from the solitary defence of one Dutch MP. Essentially it doesn’t matter to me, I will defend the rights of ANYONE to have their case heard in this country. The issue of freedom of speech is supremely important to me, as is the issue of tolerance and acceptance of minority views (this does not mean that I have to agree with those views, just accept that people have the right to hold and express them).

    If that offends you, then I apologise, your approach to tolerance, open discussion, democratic values, civil rights and freedoms built over many centuries, must be totally at odds with mine.

    curly

    March 12, 2009 at 4:49 pm

  14. Oh, and I apologise for this too Lalon, but I’m posting this before any “hothead” gets around here and tears your argument to pieces. You stated that

    More than 20 million Christians live in the Middle East, without threat or reprisals, they are in fact, generational Christians, who live side by side with their Muslim neighbours.

    Perhaps you should take a look at Google and search Christian oppression in Iran, or Pakistan,just for starters. The reading will keep you busy, and you may as well be armed with the facts.

    curly

    March 12, 2009 at 5:02 pm

  15. Curly, you were not defending their right to protest, you were actually even trying to imply that they were causing a breach of peace, inciting hatred and violence. So please dont try and fool me that you were defending them.

    Let me be very clear about my own stance on the Luton Protest…I am against a protest that mocks our servicemen, its insensitive. I certainly would never protest at the troops, but would protest at the fools who sent them there in the first place, so i would protest like the millions who did in front of Westminister. Also why do you use the words Muslim protestors? Why do you encourage hate with your words? Do you mention all the religious beliefs of protestors?

    10,000 protestors protesting that the Dutch M.P shouldnt be allowed is acceptable, but in my eyes 10 or 10,000 protesting at Luton is not acceptable because its insensitive, but quite clearly legal.
    I am not angry, dont try and suggest anything about me. I am however angry that you allow racist bigots to post inciteful words about Muslims and Islam, ou give them a a platform. I also never called you a racist or bigot, i called the people who wrote slaunderous comments about Islam.

    Lalon Amin

    March 12, 2009 at 5:13 pm

  16. Lalon,

    tonight I give up with you my friend!

    curly

    March 12, 2009 at 5:57 pm

  17. These men are not Muslim protesters? It’s encouraging hate to even talk about them?

    Curly has been as honest as the newspapers in calling these men Muslim, why should that cause a problem man?

    Why the hell should you allow this bloke a platform to spout his rubbish Curly? Since when has it been inciteful to talk the truth, they are Muslims and their banner says War against Islam and Muslims, is he blind or what?

    He’s a crackpot, don’t care what religion, but a crackpot!

    Free Speech? To think our armies over the years have fought for it, and look at the thanks.

    Jonno Peart

    March 12, 2009 at 6:32 pm

  18. Quote Lalon

    “and so does hatemonger curly, that the mosque in Luton condemned the protests.Its amazing you racist bigots dont use religion and Christianity when the Real IRA”

    Lalon you couldn’t lie straight in bed. That was soley directed at Curly.

    And whilst we’re on the subject of religions your comments about 20 million christians living in the ME without threat or reprisals is just ignorant twaddle.

    The Lebonese Christians(Catholics) have been factional fighting their Muslim country men for ages. Christians in other majority Islamic countries especially those under Sharia Law are constantly persecuted and killed.

    The racists & bigots belong in the group of protesters who just happen to be Muslim. That trend is ever on the increase & it has been pointed out to you more than once that they got away with it because of the ideals of the country they live in, allowing it ….. the country which many of them wish to turn into the same as the one they fled. Home grown Muslims who are Iraqis/Afghanis etc. have no reason to protest in this manner nor to call for Sharia law aka a Muslim state to exist in the UK.

    If as you say religions should not be mentioned then practise yours within your own home & Mosques … don’t force Islamic ideals onto the greater community
    by always being in the media whinging about being offended by this or that or being victimised because of your religion…. and your race. Because it’s the people of your religion that play the race card like a complusive gambler … at every opportunity.

    gnads

    March 13, 2009 at 10:09 am

  19. […] bring it upon themselves. The protest itself was completely delegitimised: suggestions made by one blogger include, “writing to MPs, writing to the MOD, writing to newspapers,protesting away from the […]

  20. you people just dont get it do you…

    islam, the so-called religion of peace, the religion that demands that all muslims MUST NOT align

    themselves with the infidel, the same religion that preaches death and murder to non muslims…..

    islam is a blight on western society, an enemy living within, they are not British or Australian

    or American or French or Danish, they hold no alliance to the laws and customs of the countries

    they attach themselves to like leeches, they are first and foremost, islamic…

    their alliances and agenda have nothing in common with the western people nor’ the countries they

    abide in, they come here preaching their own values to the detriment of their so-called adoptive

    country, and they live in accordance to the preaching of their filthy religion, they are in

    essence, traitors to the wants and needs of their so-called adoptive country…

    they see themselves as superior to all non muslim natives of their so-called adoptive land,

    living off our welfare systems, using our own ridiculous political correctness laws against us,

    and they see “us” the infidels, the non muslims as second class citizens, they want to enforce

    their own laws, to introduce sharia law of which it becomes lawful for these arseholes to kill us

    for being infidels, they hold no allegiance and are traitors to their adoptive countries, and as

    traitors, they should hold no rights as citizens in any western country, they should not enjoy

    freedom of speech at the expense of the free non islamic patriots of their so-called adoptive

    countries.

    we refer to terrorists as extremists, but taken in contex with what the paedophile mohammed

    preached, there is nothing extreme in their actions of terror, they follow the jihad verses to

    the tee, they dont rave on that jihad can mean many things, they dont make excuses to try and

    make jihad look like it means everything BUT a holy war against infidels, they are NOT extreme,

    they are followers of islam…

    to me, “extreme” in religion means to have religous views that are erronous, but practiced

    without fail…

    in comparison to the jihadists who follow their islamic scriptures to the tee, the so called

    moderate islamic is in fact the extremist, because they (supposedly) dont believe in holy war

    against infidels…

    islamic scripture preaches that in times of jihad, that any muslim who does not take up arms

    against the infidel can be put to death, this is fact, its not bullsh!t….

    in every western country there are so-called extreme islamic imams preaching death to the

    infidels, preaching jihad, sharia law and of the overtaking of every country on earth in order to

    create an islamic superstate, again, this is NOT bullshit, it is not a conspiracy theory, it is

    known fact, and the islamics dont hide this fact, in rallys in western countries they have even

    chanted “death to the infidels” and
    spoken of marching into washington as victors…

    these arseholes should be seen as traitors, and be given no quarter, ship them back to where they

    come from……

    a problem exists, and we have to address those problems, and regardless of the opinions of the

    politically correct do-gooders and the political correct laws,there is nothing racist about

    that…

    so curly, i respect your opinion that freedom of speech is for everyone, but i dispute the fact

    that freedom of speech should be allowed to a demonic group of arseholes who follow a religion

    that preaches death. (AND ACTS UPON THOSE PREACHINGS)

    LALON AMIN, what a stupid peice of crap you are, to call curly a racist shows just how stupid you

    really are, curly said he respects the rights of everyone to have freedom of speech, irrigardless

    of wether he agrees with you or not…

    i on the other hand, believe that you traiterous treachorous islamic scum living in western

    countries should be given no rights at all, and i base that on the actions of islamic deeds and

    terrorist attacks that have been committed within my own lifetime, and then take into account the

    history of islam for the last 1500 years, you bastards have never changed, you even kill each

    other (sunni’s vs shia’s) over a stupid little arguement that imams “should be” or “dont have to

    be” direct descendants of the pedophile mohammed…

    (if you had your filthy sharia law enforced in my country, i would not have freedom of speech, so

    whats good for the goose is good for the gander, so shut the hell up achmed)

    im not prejudiced against islam for the hell of it, i hate your filthy murderous religion and

    every threat it poses against all non muslims, commiting jihad crimes all over europe the u.s and

    my own country australia. “what am i talking about some may say”..

    islamic gang crime, rapes etc is a form of jihad, anyone want to dispute that ?
    then why do islamics try and justify their crimes by
    saying words to the effect of “infidels deserve it”..

    ie: sheik hilali in australia compared rape victims to slabs of meat, and that the girls asked

    for it by wearing skimpy clothes and that if they wore the traditional dress of muslim women and

    covered themselves up, it would never have happened..
    shilali should have been shot dead for that.

    as for all the civillian dead in iraq, most of those deaths were caused by insurgents, its not

    just the U.S. + the allies versus iraq you know, its a bloody civil war as well…

    and what do you think of those filthy racist arab muslims that ordered the genocide of black

    muslims in darfur ?

    where is your religion of peace ?
    if arab muslims can engineer the murder of black muslims because of the colour of their skin,

    then what hope does the infidel have ?

    (where is the voice of all black muslims the whole world over ? should they not be questioning

    the actions of their arab brethren concerning darfur ? just how gutless are you islamics ?)

    listen up LALON AMIN, im an infidel against islam and im bloody proud of it, and no slimy muslim

    arsehole like yourself will ever change that, call me a racist if you like, if thats the only

    arguement you scum can come up with to try and justify your pathetic murderous islamic religion,

    then your sh!t out of luck, cos’ you pr!cks will never convince me of anything.

    dont like what im saying lalom scum ?
    thats the power of freedom of speech, which is something that you dont deserve.

    madmarvin

    March 14, 2009 at 5:09 am

  21. Ah still about Phil?
    I wouldn’t have put it in exactly those words but close enough. What you say is true, sad thing is political correctness, civil libertarians & this lot of ungreatful lying traitorous sods could be the end of us.
    I hope someone sees the light before it’s too damned late.

    gnads

    March 14, 2009 at 9:58 am

  22. I wish to make it perfectly clear that many of the views stated in the above comments DO NOT coincide with my own and that commenters must accept responsibility and liablity that comes through expressing these opinions.

    The sole purpose of this topic was to defend the rights to freedom of association and speech within the confines of the law.

    The case of Redmond-Bate v. DPP (1999) concerned evangelical Christians who were leafleting and preaching outside Lichfield Cathedral. This led to their arrest for breach of the peace due to the reaction of members of a gathering crowd. The courts found them not guilty, and Lord Justice Sedley’s judgement is worth considering in this context:

    ‘Free speech includes not only the inoffensive but the irritating, the contentious, the eccentric, the heretical, the unwelcome and the provocative provided it does not tend to provoke violence. Freedom only to speak inoffensively is not worth having. What Speaker’s Corner (where the law applies as fully as anywhere else) demonstrates is the tolerance which is both extended by the law to opinion of every kind and expected by the law in the conduct of those who disagree, even strongly, with what they hear. From the condemnation of Socrates to the persecution of modern writers and journalists, our world has seen too many examples of State control of unofficial ideas. A central purpose of the European Convention on Human Rights has been to set close limits to any such assumed power. We in this country continue to owe a debt to the jury which in 1670 refused to convict the Quakers William Penn and William Mead for preaching ideas which offended against State orthodoxy.’

    from Cranmer

    Curly

    March 14, 2009 at 10:57 am

  23. gooday gnads, the muslim threat is a lot more closer to home than people realise, thats because people like curly show too much tolerance for an intolerant people, they want to uphold human rights for a group that doesnt give a stuff about OUR human rights, i see islamics for what they are, a bunch of hypocrites always crying poor me, gaining the sympathies of stupid people who seem to be hellbent on fulfilling the whim of muslims at the expense of our very own freedom….

    curly, i dont give a stuff about laws concerning muslims, no law and no do-gooder is going to make me except the values of a satanic religion, i wont tolerate a group that doesnt tolerate me, my fellow countrymen or my customs, i wont except the muslim ideal of us having to stifle our way of life to suit theirs…

    and i dont care about the opinions of others concerning free speech for muslims, muslims do NOT respect us, they do not respect our countries and our customs, they refuse to live by OUR laws…

    they are in effect, traitors to the respective western countries they live in, traitors have no rights, and as such, these islamic traitors should NOT have the right to free speech…

    madmarvin

    March 14, 2009 at 12:28 pm

  24. Well i guess i was right when i said that this blog is a platform for hatemongers……cumon, spill some more hate!lol

    And just to think it was curly who was defending them in the first place! Bloody fools

    Lalon Amin

    March 14, 2009 at 6:22 pm

  25. well come on lalom , answer the question….

    what do you think of those filthy racist arab muslims that ordered the genocide of black muslims in darfur ?

    where is your religion of peace ?

    you arseholes love calling infidels racist, but you turn a blind eye to black muslims being murdered by arab muslims because of the colour of their skin….

    and you dare call the racist card against anyone who hates a murderous religion like islam ?

    are you arab or pakistani descent ?

    if your arab it would show why you dont comment, if your pakistani or some other kind of black muslim, it would show your stupidity in not questioning the actions of arab muslims against your own colour…

    you want your freedom of speech, then speak up .

    are you sunni or shia ?

    perhaps you should go to the next protest against british soldiers and hold up two signs, one declaring them as murderers, and one thanking them for killing shias (or sunnis as the case may be)…..

    but dont forget, most civillian deaths in iraq are caused by insurgents, muslims, so maybe you should go to iraq and protest against the shias and sunnis…

    watch what happens when ALL allied troops are pulled out of iraq, insurgents will then only have muslims to worry about, watch the death toll rise, and then you idiot muslims and the do-gooders of the world will cry for western intervention to stop the killing, your all fools….

    looking forward to your replies lalom ,
    use the freedom of speech that think you deserve to have, or are you too busy raping infidels or planning terrorist attacks or listening to pro jihad imams in your filthy mosques or honour killing your unwed pregnant sister who fell pregnant from a brethren muslim rapist ?

    is it racist to hate crime or criminals ?
    the answer is no…

    and its not racist to hate a filthy murderous criminal religion like islam.

    madmarvin

    March 15, 2009 at 12:53 am

  26. The intention of this thread was to discuss issues of freedom of speech not to provide an opportunity to attack Islam or a commenter personally. If you are unable to address the issue without launching personal attacks then I will be forced to close this thread.

    There are many other places where you can go to attack the followers of Islam in the manner in which you intend.

    curly

    March 15, 2009 at 8:45 am

  27. i tell it like it is, thats free speech, or do you want to stifle free speech afterall ?

    and my posts ARE about free speech..

    this lalom fool abuses people on here with wrongful accusations, if he wants to place himself in the kitchen, then he should be prepared to take the heat, or is that not politically correct enough for you ?

    madmarvin

    March 15, 2009 at 3:18 pm

  28. Ha hah ha, thats so funny…We have our own Osama Bin MARVIN right here n Shields!God this guys an extremist…mate u aint worth me responding, im just happy to see the growing infestation of hate on this blog, thanks…keep it coming!ha ha

    Lalon Amin

    March 15, 2009 at 4:40 pm

  29. Lalon,

    without giving away IP addresses etc. I can state confidently that these views are not coming from South Shields, but are of a more antipodean nature.

    Curly

    March 15, 2009 at 6:10 pm

  30. What im trying to examine is the minds of racists and extremists. I have found my time here pretty informative, it will help with some research im doing for a film about Islamaphobia. Dont worry i understand that alot of your bloggers are a minority racist group, who feedoff your articles.
    Thanks

    Lalon Amin

    March 15, 2009 at 8:52 pm

  31. Lalon,

    I see my role in writing as providing the basis for which discussions can take place, some times it works and often it does not. However, I have to say that the more controversial the subject material, the greater the potential is for creating the debate.

    curly

    March 15, 2009 at 11:50 pm

  32. Curly,

    what i wanted to examine was what creates Islampaphobia? What is the root cause of hating other religions. Quite clearly your bloggers have real deep rooted hate towards Islam, almost symptoms of violent emotions some of your bloggers displayed.
    This is quite a hostile blog.

    Lalon Amin

    March 16, 2009 at 12:01 am

  33. Sorry-some of your bloggers display hate towards Islam

    Lalon Amin

    March 16, 2009 at 12:08 am

  34. to quote curly

    “Lalon,

    without giving away IP addresses etc. I can state confidently that these views are not coming from South Shields, but are of a more antipodean nature.”

    ———————————————
    just goes to show how dense this lalon is.

    if you read the posts again lalon, you might finally digest the fact that i said im australian….

    islamaphobia ?

    islamaphobia as you call it, exists not because of racism or because people hate your religion for no reason.

    islamaphobia as you call it exists because your filthy religion and its followers hates me and every other infidel, you terrorise us for decades,
    you preach death to us at regular intervals, you threaten our way of life by promising to overtake our countries and introducing sharia law, you refuse to integrate with the natives of any country you immigrate to, you make demands that no other group of migrants have ever asked for, you cause trouble where ever you go and you commit crimes against the infidels in the name of jihad, you teach your offspring to hate us and to see us as second class citizens in OUR country, you murder your daughters in honour killings just because some may dare to be attracted to an infidel, you murder your own members of islam just because they are a different colour or believe something that is slightly different, you are a lawless bunch of cowards who go around raping innocent women, and your imams and families say it is lawful for you to do so, your whole religion IS in fact a threat AND an abomination to the western world, you even childishly threaten war world wide over a bunch of cartoons that depicted your mongrel pedophile prophet for the scum that he was, you have NO tolerance for us what so ever, but you demand that we tolerate you…

    you want to know why islamaphobia exists ?

    i’ll tell you…

    its because your a bunch of racist murdering arseholes who follow a backward murderous religion,
    you bought this all on your selves, so dont go around
    blaming everyone else for your own shortcomings, why dont you all just p!ss off back to an islamic country where you might feel appreciated.
    ————————————–

    and to quote curly again…

    “without giving away IP addresses etc. I can state confidently that these views are not coming from South Shields, but are of a more antipodean nature”

    curly, dont make it sound like there is no one in shields who dont share my views, cos’ you and i both know there is, why dont you and all the other do-gooders who believe in giving islamics everything their little black hearts desire wake up to yourselves and finally realise that the problem in every western country concerning islam does NOT stem from racism on the part of non muslims,. it stems from the fact that islam is a real threat to our way of life.

    its attitudes like yours that lends power AGAINST your own people to these islamic scum…
    —————————–

    feel free to make some speech lalom..

    explain to me why black muslims dont question their islamic beliefs when they are murdered by other islamics, and explain to me why they dont question the genocidal orders of islamic arabs in darfur ?

    you wont answer because you know that anything you say can only do harm against your filthy beloved
    religion, and you wouldnt want to upset your filthy false god allah would you….

    madmarvin

    March 16, 2009 at 12:51 am

  35. Osama bin Marvin…….i couldnt force myself to write a response to beautiful poetry. It seems you have more hate to spill, consider me to be a therapist….So Mr Bin Marvin, what else makes you angry?

    Lalon Amin

    March 16, 2009 at 5:16 pm

  36. your refusal to answer speaks volumes…

    its just like i said, answering those questions can only do damage to your pissy little religion.

    and it also shows that your a typical ignorant muslim, you ignore the bad things of islam, because you dont think its bad, its all suppose to be allahs will, what a bunch of stupid cretinous automatons you are, brainwashed from birth, you should have been drowned instead.

    a therapist ? the only therapy you islamic pr!cks know is “allah allah allah” with all its teachings of death to the infidels and getting your perpetual virgins in heaven, growing their hymens back after each screw, its a pity you pathetic muzzies cant grow some balls and braincells and see just how stupid your murderous beliefs really are.

    now come on arsehole, practice your supposed right to free speech and speak up for your precious allah, show everyone why we are suppose to be wrong about your filthy god and your sick religion…

    if you dont speak up for your allah, you wont get your virgins, so speak up dickhead.
    ——————————

    note to curly: just so you know, my above remarks to lalom are not insults, they are observations, lalom has definitely shown himself up to be a typical ignorant muslim prick, and i say this with all sincerity.

    best regards, madmarvin.

    madmarvin

    March 17, 2009 at 12:53 am

  37. im beginning to smell a rat, lalom, are you really a moslem ?

    if you are, that would be the rat smell.

    madmarvin

    March 17, 2009 at 12:57 am

  38. Lalon… don’t take it now that Curly or Curly’s site is a platform just for hate mongers against Islam because it’s not ….. you’re here are you not?

    Just because Marvin is very free & colourful with his expletives/adjectives doesn’t give you an out for not answering the questions he asks you of Islam nor for judging Curly & his blog.

    As for you making a film(yeah yeah everyones a researcher or Doco maker) about Islamaphobia I suggest you’re wasting your time …… if you don’t know why people question & object to the way followers of the so called Islamic religion(I don’t call it merely a religion because it is mixed in with primative cultural beliefs/rituals that don’t belong in the modern civilised world)behave in countries to which they migrate after theirs has turned to shyte then you are extremely naive.

    You as a home grown Muslim may offer lip service against some of the radical behaviour like this protest or the London bombings ….

    .. but that’s all you do.

    You’re the one in need of remedial therapy.

    gnads

    March 17, 2009 at 1:14 am

  39. Osama bin Marvin, my assesment of your well being is pretty grim, its safe to say that you have rat shite in your head. Unfortunatley there is no cure, early reports indicate it is heridatory.
    But please do feel free to spill more of your emotions out, quite clearly you want love and affection, maybe Gnads could help relieve you of that. I will send him over.
    Oh yes, as for your wanting to learn more about the great religion ISLAM, well i suggest that it is not in your intellect to grasp it, what can i say, a rat can only imagine shite n sewers, i believe you should stick with that..ok, well i suppose you can have one answer, and that is………naah,how could i possibly talk to you about religion..your head is full of shite!but dont worry Osama, just look at the bright side, at least you can type so much, u should have your curly wurly blog!
    Was that a nice response?

    Lalon Amin

    March 17, 2009 at 1:43 am

  40. Osama bin Marvin, my assesment of your well being is pretty grim, its safe to say that you have rat shite in your head. Unfortunatley there is no cure, early reports indicate it is heridatory.
    But please do feel free to spill more of your emotions out, quite clearly you want love and affection, maybe Gnads could help relieve you of that. I will send him over.
    Oh yes, as for your wanting to learn more about the great religion ISLAM, well i suggest that it is not in your intellect to grasp it, what can i say, a rat can only imagine shite n sewers, i believe you should stick with that..ok, well i suppose you can have one answer, and that is………naah,how could i possibly talk to you about religion..your head is full of shite!but dont worry Osama, just look at the bright side, at least you can type so much, u should have your curly wurly blog!
    Was that a nice response?

    Lalon Amin

    March 17, 2009 at 1:43 am

  41. Oh and Gnads…please, you are far too intellectual for me to even answer you…how could i answer your eagerness to learn about ISLAM, i am so pleased to see this willing person eager to join a billion Muslims to the religion of Islam…you make me proud GNADS

    Lalon Amin

    March 17, 2009 at 1:50 am

  42. And i thought Australians are well mannered, i always had this image of Australians to be friendly, polite and beautiful people. Oh well i guess Osama Marvin is the black sheep of Australia, just like that Australian Bushback murderer!he reminds me of him!Marvin your givn me nightmares!lol

    Lalon Amin

    March 17, 2009 at 1:56 am

  43. Marvin, make your next blog really long, write lots of words, words that maybe you dont understand, but still write it. Make it at least 1000 words of hate.
    Sounds good for a title…1000 words of hate…from the Australian extremist!…But hey, plz do make it long, i kind of like half reading wat you right anyway, but to know someones spends all that time writing makes me feel kinda good!lol

    Lalon Amin

    March 17, 2009 at 2:02 am

  44. gooday gnads, i doubt we will get an answer from this islamic scum, hes just a typical lieing moslem, i told him in great detail that islamaphobia exists because of their own actions, and that they are at blame for it themselves, but the moron just attempts to laugh it off and seeks other reason.

    as for his research dribble, what a joke, especially since he wrote in his last post……..

    “i kind of like half reading wat you right anyway”

    he’ll never get a job with rupert murdoch thats for sure.

    he’s no different to any other lieing moslem scum, its just the same as when moslems try to tell us that “jihad” means everything else BUT holy war against infidels, and its no different to when high profile imams living in western countries openly make threats against the western world and then try to cover their tracks with the much used bullshit excuse of “youve taken it out of context” line…

    these moslems are just weak decietful liars.

    and lalom is the weakest of them all, he wont even defend his allah with the normal deceitful lies that we hear from other islamic scum.

    ————————————

    as for well mannered aussies, i could crap on your head and still have better manners than you ignorant
    intolerant monkeys, your filthy religion teaches you not to tolerate non muslims, so you shouldnt be surprised when we refuse to tolerate you you whinging whining hypocrites.

    as for your attempted insults, even though you failed, i give you a thumbs up for your pathetic attempt at being intelligent, but you get a thumbs down for a lack of imagination.
    —————————————–

    and once again, why dont you practice your right to free speech ? heres your chance to redeem yourself to arsehole allah…

    just answer the questions…

    explain to me why black muslims dont question their islamic beliefs when they are murdered by other islamics because of the colour of their skin ?

    and explain to me why they dont question the genocidal orders of islamic arabs in darfur ?

    madmarvin

    March 17, 2009 at 3:07 am

    • @MadMarvin,

      you have now definitely overstepped a mark, a line, some of your comments were clearly intended to inflame, insult, and personally offend, so they have been removed.

      I am now sitting here as an outsider in this discussion wondering if the three of you are baiting each other just for sport or fun, some of the remarks here are not moving your debate further forward, nor are they addressing the rights of protesters to be heard in a free society.

      Please keep your debate a little more civil.

      curly

      March 17, 2009 at 8:04 am

  45. your a friggin’ wuss curly, just a political correct wanker, your self righteous opinions that equality must be given to everyone, doesnt work in the real world, cos there is no way that islamic scum will afford you the same rights that you afford them, and its turkeys like you who afford more rights to these filth than the rest of us get, its pure insanity that you and your ilk are one of the main problems that allows moslems to deprive us of our customs, our freedom and if the muslims had there way our very lives, people like you are bordering on treason.

    if that upsets you, go and cry on lalons shoulder, cos’ i dont give a stuff.

    madmarvin

    March 17, 2009 at 8:30 am

    • Well, that’s a new one, me politically correct!

      curly

      March 17, 2009 at 9:53 am

  46. thats the impression you always gave me curly, you were always shit scared when someone wrote a post on sanddancers showing up the moslems for the filthy scum that they are, both you and jimmy would cack yourselves and delete posts.

    these scum have threatened our way of life for decades, its written in their bloody koran to cause us strife, they hate us, and they disrespect us,. thats why i have no problem disrespecting them..

    and it always pisses me off to see jokers like you
    turn around and demand that everyone respects them…

    so calling allah “arseholeallah is crossing the line is it ?

    its alright to respect other peoples religions, but NOT when that religion preaches the death of non believers, you fools have got your priorities wrong.

    giving any kind of respect to these mongrel zealots is just hammering a nail into your own coffin.

    madmarvin

    March 17, 2009 at 12:52 pm

  47. Osama Bin Marvin, i am afraid you really need specialist help with your state of mind.

    lalon Amin

    March 17, 2009 at 1:46 pm

  48. tell that to your islamic suicide bombers you moslem scum.

    madmarvin

    March 17, 2009 at 3:30 pm

  49. You sound an angry man, is someone bothering you?maybe some bad childhood experience?I can see why you call yourself Osama bin Marvin, its good to see that you are accepting the fact that you are mad.
    I guess you must be annoyed that i have not answered your questions, im sure you are eager…but they say in my country, if a dog bites, you don’t bite back….rabies!i guess you are infested, so wouldnt want to get into a debate with you my dear friend

    lalon Amin

    March 17, 2009 at 3:38 pm

  50. lalom…
    to quote you… “I guess you must be annoyed that i have not answered your questions”

    why would i be annoyed ?
    i already stated in an earlier reply..

    “you wont answer because you know that anything you say can only do harm against your filthy beloved
    religion, and you wouldnt want to upset your filthy false god arseholeallah would you…”

    —————————–

    and thats the real reason you wont answer, because if you answered saying that it was wrong to kill the black moslems, then you would prove that islam is a hypocritical religion that murders its own, and if you tried to condone it, it would just be more proof
    that islam is a hypocritical religion that murders its own..

    and the fact that you dont answer indicates that you know damn well that islam is a hypocritical religion that murders its own, but you dont want to get caught out with these questions because you have no answers that can show that islam is not a hypocritical religion that kills its own……

    but if you were to say that it is allahs will, then that statement would prove that allah himself is a hypocritical god, cos if he doesnt want black followers, then why the hell did the arabs bloody well convert them ?

    and thats just typical of islamics, ignore the facts, put up smokescreens tell lies and dont answer any questions that can only undermine the sovreignty of your false god…….

    and if all else fails, start a riot, jump up and down yelling death to the infidels death to america blah blah blah burn the flags of america england australia etc etc.. and show everyone how devout you are, by this time you will all be in a frenzy and forget the questions that prove that your filthy religion and your murderous false god is the epitamy of hypocrasy….

    its pathetic.

    madmarvin

    March 17, 2009 at 5:56 pm

  51. and dont call me friend you arsehole.

    madmarvin

    March 17, 2009 at 6:00 pm

  52. Looks like someone is wound up!ha ha

    lalon Amin

    March 17, 2009 at 6:04 pm

  53. What is evident though, is that the only extremist i see is Mr Osama Bin Marvin. I mean he has wrote so much, he might as well right a book!My dear friend Mad Marvin, i told you before, how could i respond about Islam to a rat, i just couldn’t force myself to do it.

    lalon Amin

    March 17, 2009 at 6:07 pm

  54. and i rest my case, you wont even attempt to vindicate your false god, cos’ you know you cant, all you have is silly replies designed to try and make me look like im upset and in a frenzy…

    but you couldnt be any further from the truth, ive got your number pal, and you know it, not even your most devout and learned imams could answer my questions without proving that allah and his followers are hypocrites, hell, not even allah himself if he existed could answer my questions without making a fool of himself.

    and if your god is a fool, then how silly does that make you…

    madmarvin

    March 17, 2009 at 6:21 pm

    • Listen guys, I started this thread/topic to discuss or debate issues of free speech and I stated clearly that I was not interested in side issues such as middle eastern conflicts or anything else, this debate/argument between the two or three of you has taken place in MY BLOG (think of it as my house). I have been generous with my guests in allowing you to be so vociferous, vocal, spiteful, hate filled, abusive, intolerant, and downright rude whilst in here, I’m sure you would afford me the same hospitality in your own place.

      However, whilst attempting to make your points, can I ask that at least you be civil with one another, keep a clean tongue, do not intentionally show disrespect and everything will surely be fine. Exactly the same type of rules as I apply on the boards. If you cannot manage to discuss in this manner then I will close the thread.

      curly

      March 17, 2009 at 7:58 pm

  55. “this debate/argument between the two or three of you has taken place in MY BLOG (think of it as my house).”

    If it were my house Curly, i would have kicked loony Marvin out by now, i wouldnt welcome someone with that vocabulary in my house. But i guess in your house its fine. I am also sure you are aware that the offensive language that Marvin is using is out of order and also very Islamaphobic material…ppl would not be surprised if this were BNP head quarters

    Osama Bin Marvin…Me not answering to you does not mean that i am being silent or i cant defend, it just means that i choose not to enter a debate about Islam with a person who’s views are extreme in such ways that you show signs of being a terrorist. I would not be surprised if i heard on the Australian news that you have blew up your dogs kennel!

    Lalon Amin

    March 17, 2009 at 9:56 pm

    • If I thought it was fine then I wouldn’t waste my time and effort issuing these warnings to people with cloth ears!
      Rather than allowing this goading of each other to continue, I am closing the comments. You have all had a fair crack of the whip!

      curly

      March 17, 2009 at 10:32 pm


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